Ben Shapiro - ateities politikų prototipas?

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Vilius
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2018-06-04 20:11

Sejanus wrote:
2018-06-04 17:55
(got it? heh)
Nea...
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Svetimas
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2018-07-24 22:34

Sejanus wrote:Aš irgi pradėjau skaityti, pirmas gal net tris pastraipas įveikiau, bet panašu autorius užsilipęs ant tokio aukšto pjedestalo ir taip iš viršaus žiūri į konservatorius, kad man čia stovint ant žemės nieko gerai nesigirdi ir sunku suprasti, ką jis ten aukštumose burba. Priskaičiau iki tos vietos, kur paėmė Shapiro pasisakymus Antifa adresu („garbage“) ir mėgino pateikti kaip kokią tai jo filosofijos esmę ir tada kritikuoti, kad ta esmė yra labai lėkšta ir t.t.
Ten buvo tik nereikšminga įžanga. Šiaip, turbūt galima autoriaus tone įžiūrėti tam tikrą aroganciją. Bet kitos pasaulėžiūros žmogus ir Ben Shapiro kalbose greičiausiai įžiūrės tą patį dalyką.
Sejanus wrote:Ben Shapiro yra už ką kritikuoti, ir dėl ko su juo nesutikti, pvz., Vilius čia aptarinėjo jo religingumą, dar galima pakalbėti ir apie jo požiūrį į abortus, net apie jo argumentavimo stilių ir pačius argumentus ir t.t., bet kol kas nei vienas iš skaitytų vadinamųjų kritikų nieko panašaus nedarė.
Tai, kad minėtas autorius kritikavo Ben Shapiro argumentavimo stilių. Ir, sakyčiau, gana racionaliai bandė tai daryti. Tik nepriskaitei iki to. :) Žemiau pateikiu kelis pavyzdžius.

Pvz.: su rasiniais dalykais susiję klausimai:

"a white man with a criminal record is far more likely to receive a job callback than a black man without a criminal record":
[+] show hidden text
What dispirited me about Shapiro’s approach is that he’s clearly not actually very interested in Facts at all. The role that race plays in American life is a serious sociological question, one that isn’t answered easily. But Shapiro plucks only the statistics that suggest race doesn’t matter, and pretends the statistics that suggest it does matter don’t exist. Nobody can trust him, because if he comes across a finding showing that incarceration rates more closely follow crime rates than racial demographics, you can bet it will appear in his next speech. But if someone shows that a white man with a criminal record is far more likely to receive a job callback than a black man without a criminal record, you’ll never hear it mentioned. It would be perfectly reasonable for Shapiro to critique these findings; sociologists critique each other all the time. Instead, he selects only the parts of reality that please him. Just look at his reply when he was asked about the black-white wealth gap: “It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture.” That’s a strange thing to say, because the wealth gap has existed continuously since the time of slavery: average black net worth has always been lower than white net worth, and there were massive structural obstacles to the black accumulation of wealth well into the 20th century, as we can see in Ta-Nehisi Coates’ writings on the lasting impact of housing policy. Family wealth is passed down intergenerationally, and so it’s hard to conclude that the fact that the average white family has $13 of wealth for every $1 of wealth held by a black family is the sole result of spontaneous contemporary black cultural choices, with no historical component whatsoever. The impact of human decisions on outcomes, and the factors that shape the available range of choices, are difficult topics in social science with no easy answers. But one thing we do know is that, since black people were enslaved for 246 years (and free for 152), and Jim Crow was in operation during the time of people who are still alive (thereby being a core determinant of both their life outcomes and the capital that they were able to pass onto their own children), anyone who says “culture is everything” and “race is irrelevant” is not actually seriously interested in trying to figure out how the world works.


"black men receive 20% longer sentences for the same crime":
But I’d also like to hear him explain why black men receive 20% longer sentences for the same crime as white men with similar backgrounds.)
Nors kiek aš pats varčiau pačią ataskaitą, tai nėra viskas ten taip paprasta, kaip autorius rašo:
[+] show hidden text
Limitations of Regression Analysis
In its prior reports, the Commission noted that results from its analyses should be taken with caution. Although regression analysis is a tool commonly used by social scientists, as well as in a variety of legal contexts, to examine the relationship between multiple factors, it has limitations. In particular, one or more key factors that could affect the analysis may have been omitted from the methodologies used because a particular factor is unknown, or because data about it is not readily available.

For example, judges may consider potentially relevant information available to them in a presentence report, such as an offender’s employment history or family circumstances. However, the Commission does not routinely extract this information from the sentencing documents it receives and, therefore, data about those factors are not controlled for in this analysis. Additionally, judges may make decisions about sentencing offenders based on other legitimate considerations that cannot be measured.
Because multivariate regression analysis cannot control for all of the factors that judges may consider, the results of the analyses presented in this report should be interpreted with caution and should not be taken to suggest discrimination on the part of judges. Multivariate analysis cannot explain why the observed differences in sentencing outcomes exist, but only that they do exist.

------
Conclusion

In this report, the Commission has provided an update to its prior reports on demographic differences in sentencing. The Commission found that sentence length continues to be associated with some demographic factors, in particular race and gender. After controlling for a wide variety of sentencing factors, the Commission found that Black male offenders continued to receive longer sentences than similarly situated White male offenders, and that female offenders of all races received shorter sentences than White male offenders.
Non-government sponsored departures and variances appear to contribute significantly to the difference in sentence length between Black male and White male offenders. Black male offenders were less likely than White male offenders to receive a non-government sponsored downward departure or variance during the most recent period studied. Further, even when Black male offenders received a non-government sponsored departure or variance, their sentences were longer than White male offenders who received a non-government sponsored departure or variance.
The Commission also found that prior violent crimes, as documented in an offender’s criminal history, do not significantly contribute to demographic differences in federal sentencing. An offender’s past criminal violence is not a statistically significant predictor of the sentence imposed for a federal offense to any extent beyond the contribution it makes to the offender’s final sentence imposed through operation of the criminal history score under the sentencing guidelines.


Kritikuoja Ben Shapiro, jog jis naudoja šiaudines baidykles, argumentavimą per naivias analogijas ir pan. Pvz. transeksualių žmonių klausimu.
“most of the trans people I know, including myself, are under no delusion about what we were born as or what biological sex we are, we just feel uncomfortable with the features of our biological sex and seek treatment, usually, to alter those features and minimize our dysphoria.”
[+] show hidden text
Shapiro’s position on transgender people is very simple then. He rejects “the pseudo-scientific nonsense that a man can magically turn into a woman,” because it is no different than thinking an undergraduate can turn into a moose. Shapiro says that “individuals who believe they are a different sex than that of their biology are psychologically ill—self-evidently so” and has compared the idea of being transgender to his schizophrenic grandfather who thought the curtains were speaking to him.

But for a man who loves Logical Argumentation and would never “mischaracterize his opponents’ positions,” Shapiro doesn’t actually seem to grasp what the left argument about gender actually is, or what it is he’s actually supposed to be disproving.

[...]
Transgender people do not “think they are a different sex.” Instead, they realize that their “gender” doesn’t match their sex. As a transgender person explained in response to Shapiro, “most of the trans people I know, including myself, are under no delusion about what we were born as or what biological sex we are, we just feel uncomfortable with the features of our biological sex and seek treatment, usually, to alter those features and minimize our dysphoria.”

The dysphoria is not the “delusional belief that you don’t have a penis when you in fact do.” It’s the distress that comes from feeling like a member of the “female” gender despite having the “male” sex, or vice versa. The argument being made is that the existing way we classify sex/gender is not adequately describing the actual fact, which is that because gender captures more than just chromosomes, the traditional terminology causes confusion and needs revising.
[...]
People with congenital androgen insensitivity syndrome might have female bodies, female external genitalia, and have been raised female their entire life, but when you look into their cells they have Y chromosomes. Most people seem to assume that the ultimate tiebreaker in man vs. woman questions is presence of a Y chromosome. I’m not sure this is a very principled decision, because I expect most people would classify congenital androgen insensitivity patients (XY people whose bodies are insensitive to the hormone that makes them look male, and so end up looking 100% female their entire lives and often not even knowing they have the condition) as women. The project of the transgender movement is to propose a switch from using chromosomes as a tiebreaker to using self-identification as a tiebreaker.
[...]
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Svetimas
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2018-07-24 22:43

Vilius wrote:
2018-06-04 17:07
Svetimas wrote:
2018-06-04 16:51
Kad jau pradėjau panašiai drumsti vandenį kitoj temoj apie Jordan Peterson, įmetu čia kritišką nuomonę apie Ben Shapiro ( Nathan J. Robinson. The Cool Kid’s Philosopher).
Man patinka, kad autorius nekalba sausai ir įvairios papildomos su tema susijusios informacijos pakapsto, kurią gali pats įvertinti, paanalizuoti ir sau pilnesnį savarankišką vaizdą susidaryti.
Pradėjau skaityt tavo linką, bet ten taip ištęsta viskas, kad po kelių pastraipų praradau viltį daskaityt iki esmės.. Jei pats perskaitei, gal pacituosi, ką jis ten įdomas apie Shapiro parašė?
Na, pagrindiniai autoriaus priekaištai Ben Shapiro yra tie, kad Ben Shapiro, nepaisant jo deklaruojamo intelektualinio sąžiningumo bei meilės tiesai ir faktams ("Facts don’t care about your feelings"), vis dėlto, anot autoriaus, nepajėgia pakilti aukščiau savo konservatoriškos ideologijos ir labiau skleidžia savo ideologijai palankią agendą, renka taškus savo šalininkų akyse debatiniais argumentavimo triukais ar ne itin sąžiningai cherry pickintais faktais, nei iš tikro siekia kažkokios tikros tiesos ar konstruktyvaus susikalbėjimo su savo oponentais.

Kiek žiūrėjau naujesnius pokalbius su Intelectual Dark Web (IDW) atstovais: Jordan Peterson, Bret Weinstein, Eric Weinstein, Sam Harris ir pan. (Ben Shapiro irgi dalyje dalyvavo), tai IDW skirtingų pasaulėžiūrų žmonių sąžiningą tarpusavio kalbėjimosi naratyvą aktyviai stumia. Tai gal tas IDW naratyvas ir su tuos susiję žmonės bent kažkiek apšlifuos Ben Shapiro aštrius kampus.
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Sejanus
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2018-07-25 04:26

Tai gal tas IDW naratyvas ir su tuos susiję žmonės bent kažkiek apšlifuos Ben Shapiro aštrius kampus.
Tikiuosi ne. Tokių apšlifuotų ir taip pilna.

O kad jis cherrypickina tai faktas, antraip nebūtų religingas. Bet nemanau, kad cherrypickina daugiau nei įprasta visiems žmonėms.
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Svetimas
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2018-07-29 22:29

Sejanus wrote:
Svetimas wrote:Beje, mums čia smulkmena ir juokelis, o, pavyzdžiui, yra dėdžių, kurie su kažkiek panašiais dalykais gan rimtai bando žaisti
https://jspp.psychopen.eu/article/view/36/html
Image
Tai taip, gera dalis humanitarinių, socialinių ir panašių „mokslų“ tėra šarlatanizmas. Išvaikyti juos su rykšte iš universitetų :)
Ten aukščiau "Tea Party ideology" diagrama, jei ką.
Aš kaip tiksliukas jaučiu tam tikrą silpnybę visokioms diagramoms. Todėl pamatęs iš minkštųjų mokslo šakų (kurios, kaip tame anekdote, turi apatinę puslapių skaičiaus moksliniuose darbuose ribą, skirtingai nei su viršutine riba tiksliuosiuose moksluose) bet kokią inicityvą kažkaip suspausti tą informaciją į kokias nors bent kiek originalesnes diagramas ar pan., neskubėčiau jų vaikyti, bet gan draugiškai pasitikčiau ir žiūrėčiau, ką jie siūlo. :)

Bežiūrėdamas į tas diagramas pagalvojau, kad jeigu būčiau koks nedoras trolių fabriko direktorius ar politinis technologas man tokios schemos turbūt patiktų. Turbūt nereikia aiškinti kodėl. :)
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Sejanus
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2018-07-30 04:38

(kurios, kaip tame anekdote, turi apatinę puslapių skaičiaus moksliniuose darbuose ribą, skirtingai nei su viršutine riba tiksliuosiuose moksluose)
Papasakok visą anekdotą ;)
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Sejanus
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2018-08-31 19:19

Skaitinėjau dabar Ben Shapiro saitą ir užtikau tokią įdomią naujieną. Isterikai vėl kabinėjasi prie aktorių, nesuprasdami, kad aktoriai filme vaidina, jie kažkuo apsimeta, jie neturi būti tuo ką vaidina. Bet šis atvejis klounadą perkėlė į naują lygį :) (Paryškinta mano).
SJWs Lose It After Peter Dinklage Cast As ‘Filipino.’ There’s Just One Problem.

Backlash over Peter Dinklage’s casting as Hervé Villechaize — star of “Fantasy Island” — has highlighted one of the great problems with identity politics and social justice: they actually reduce people to perceived identities.

Dinklage, an accomplished actor who happens to have dwarfism, will play Villechaize in an upcoming HBO movie called “My Dinner with Hervé.” The “Game of Thrones” star has been accused of “whitewashing” because Villechaize was supposedly half-Filipino.

Except he wasn’t.

Villechaize was actually French, and was of German and English descent.
But because he looked like he may have been Filipino — and Wikipedia told them so — social justice warriors accused Dinklage of “yellow face.”
https://www.dailywire.com/news/35252/sj ... ashe-schow
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2018-10-30 12:16

Ši antraštė truputį prajuokino: Ben Shapiro slams Trump for 'enemy of the people' tweet, says this 'has to stop'. Gal vieną dieną šios temos herojus ir užaugs iki politiko, kuris galėtų "slam"inti Trampo kalibro dėdes.. Bet tas laikas dar laaabai toli ateityje. Kol kas čia panašiau į musės "smūgį" drambliui :)
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